Saturday, 10 October 2020

Progress news (delay)

Hello again,

I'm sorry about how long it's been since making the last post here, and also for the fact that I'm having to announce another delay to v0.4. I haven't been feeling 100% over the past few weeks, which has slowed down my rate of progress by quite a considerable amount. I'm starting to feel better now, though, so I'll be able to resume work on this next version and hopefully have something ready for you in a couple of weeks.

There's not really much else for me to say here, other than I'll try to make another post to let you know how things are going some time next week.

107 comments:

  1. Please take care of yourself first, and don't feel like you need to rush. Good things come to those who wait.

    ReplyDelete
  2. i hope you feel better. take your time it will be done when its done your health is more important. thank you for doing your best .

    ReplyDelete
  3. Hope you're feeling better soon.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Hope you'll really feel better. All we can hope now is to see this version at least before 2021. Well, we can wait. Another month. Probably. And hope this version will be truly something. We believe in you. Stay healthy and kinky.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Please take your time, no need to rush yourself.
    It's done when it's done!

    ReplyDelete
  6. I don't understand why you feel so obligated to your audience, all this apologizing is just so unnecessary. Keeping us updated is certainly very nice but you shouldn't feel bad for things taking longer than planned. I follow 5 different games in development, one only releases monthly updates, the other 4, which includes yours, releases things as they come, i expect nothing of them or you, this is all free entertainment. I will happily wait 6 months if that's what it takes for you to update your game, relax Inno.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. is one of them new life by Splendid ostrich games? Degrees of lewdity?

      Delete
    2. @Googas It's not free entertainment for her subscribers. This is Inno's job, not her hobby. If she follows your advice, she's going to have to get an IRL job.

      Delete
    3. DoL yes, going to have to google SO after this comment.

      Sure, on her subscription service, not here though.

      Delete
    4. what are the other games you follow I'm curios googas

      Delete
    5. @Googas Many of the people posting here are subscribers. I was myself until I put my subscription on hold. When Inno puts out a release that actually progresses the main story, I'll be renewing that subscription. Don't assume that just because someone is posting on the public blog that they don't support the game.

      Delete
    6. Anon: DoL, TiTS/CoC2, Lilith's Throne, Renryuu Ascension, Tales of Androgyny.

      Carl: Sure, that's true enough, i'm obviously biased from my own perspective, i just feel like apologies belong on the subscription service posts and simple statements of facts belong on the public posts. If i'm off base then i'm off base.

      Delete
    7. @Googas You are absolutely correct. As long as the delay isn't because of a decision or a bug that resulted from one, there is no blame to bear, no reason to feel guilty, no reason to apologize. I do, however, appreciate that Inno cares enough to do so.

      Delete
    8. @Carl0s Danger Yer a right cunt.

      Delete
    9. original anon googas love Fenoxo games great games

      Delete
    10. I agree anooon, it's where it all started for me, all these other games have been recommendations from people i met as a consequence of the Fenco games.

      Delete
    11. @Anonymous (pretty obvious which one)

      You have no idea.

      Delete
    12. the fact that I end up here because of a Undertale porn comic on a furry art site which has a modded version of the original Corruption of champions that started me down my path is wild

      Delete
  7. I'm not even angry at Inno. The constant coddling from some of these people is what really bugs me. Yes delays happen but you don't need to coddle her with reassurances every. single. time. She is an adult. She knows the deal by now, sheesh you guys.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It's preferable to people being shitlords about it or apathetic. Receiving reassurances from the fanbase that they understand has to be infinitely better than the alternatives of dead silence or outrage. Odd thing to get upset about.

      Delete
    2. Yeah delays happen, but the amount of times Inno has delayed updates is staggering to say the least. It also certainly doesn't help that she has been doing this for a very long time.

      It's either: "I'm not feeling well" or "There have been unexpected bugs"

      The amount of times she hasn't felt well would've gotten her fired at a real job. Like how the hell does she get sick so much? Does she not have a functioning immune system? Imagine every time she felt sick or "not 100%" she used a sick day at a real job?

      This has been a huge joke for a loooong time.

      Delete
    3. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    4. If I had a dime for every indie developer that came up saying the project has been delayed because they're dealing with health/mental issues, I'd be somewhat rich by now. (That and losing the project/progress because the computer died, and they didn't have a backup).

      I'm a bit of a cynic sometimes - it's easy to come up with excuses and lies when you're behind a screen and don't have come prove yourself to others. If something is going wrong, you can just say you're sick or depressed or dealing with anxiety, to excuse your poor performance, hoping people will take pity on you and look the other way or throw a little extra money to "help out".

      On the other hand, there's a chance people may actually be suffering from a condition. When you work from home (and especially if you live alone) it's easy to let your health and good habits slip away. Some people stop going outside, they spend too many hours siting in front of a computer, they socialize less, they don't exercise as much, their sleeping schedules can become erratic, eating habits may not be the best, etc. All of these things combined usually culminate in a bunch of problems sooner or later.

      Then there's also those that use Patreon/Sub.Star as a job replacement because they can't find/have a normal job due to reasons. Nevertheless, just in case Inno is being honest, I wish her a quick recovery.

      Delete
    5. tl;dr: I don't think the above comment is helpful or an accurate representation of reality. I think a better way to proceed is from a place of compassion, stating one's own intent in response to circumstances without malice or assumption of other's intent or circumstance.

      Long version:
      The above comment feels pretty presumptuous to me. I suspect it's intended as a fair warning for would-be backers, coming from a place of trying to help people spend their money wisely. That said, it also seems to make a series of assumptions (I'd wager based on personal experience, but I could be wrong) which I appreciate they acknowledge may not hold. In particular, the third paragraph on how health can deteriorate strikes me as true only for certain archetypes (e.g., reclusive shut-in) but is applied as a blanket statement of, "When you work from home, [the following behaviors are likely]."

      Let us suppose those assumptions are valid and hold in Innoxia's case. What is the point of saying so here? If Innoxia is, as Ivory implied, fabricating excuses for the delays, (2nd paragraph) detailing a deterioration of health here does nothing; it's irrelevant. If, as Ivory acknowleges is possible, Innoxia is sincere in her health issues, what does pointing out the hypothetical progression and cause accomplish? I suspect the motive is coming from a place of trying to help, encouraging healthier habits to avoid further delays. However, I am strongly dubious that a comment on the internet will be sufficient to sway anyone's life choices, especially if (as is often the case) people are honestly just trying to do the best they can. After all, if doctors, with reams of medical journals on the healthiest way to live, with all the status and authority granted to them by their profession, are unable to convince their patients, with whom they already have a longstanding relationship, to exercise, eat healthily, etc., how does a comment on the internet stand a chance?

      The above is assuming, inaccurately in my view, that Ivory's assumptions about the origins of health problems are accurate. I dispute those assumptions. Medically, the most commonly associated problems with the behaviors Ivory listed are chronic issues, such as loss of muscle tone, cardiac disease, mental disorders, diabetes, and so on. These are all slow to develop, and very slow to go into remission, and sometimes not at all. The fact that Innoxia reports that she is "starting to feel better now" suggests an acute condition. While it'd be easy to wonder if it's COVID-19 because it's weighing heavily in the public mind, it's even more reasonable to assume it's some other, more common condition such as general flu, a bad cold, an injury, or something similar. Furthermore, I note that Ivory in no way acknowledged preexisting conditions such as ALS, Rhumatoid disorders, or other such conditions whose onset is independent of lifestyle, permanent, and known to have debilitating flare-ups. My point here is that we don't know about Innoxia's condition beyond what she reports, and even with that uncertainty, there are many, many perfectly reasonable conditions which could explain feeling unwell for a month without requiring us to assume an unhealthy lifestyle. I allow that Ivory is unlikely to be swayed; as per the phrasing, "there's a chance people may actually be suffering from a condition", Ivory doesn't sound convinced that Innoxia was actually infirm. I submit that the chances may be higher than Ivory was considering in that discussion of strictly lifestyle-influenced, chronic conditions.

      Delete
    6. (Continued)

      The discussion of Patreon/Sub Star as a job "normal" replacement also strikes me as a fairly presumptuous implication, as well as irrelevant. In the field of economics, it's acknowledged that the younger generations are facing what's known as a "gig economy", that is, making a living without a formal contract with a single, stable employer. In this way, I would argue that Patreon/Sub Star DO constitute normal jobs, and furthermore, the belief that they are a second-best alternative if one can't hold down a "normal" job strikes me as a fairly privileged assertion, implying both A) single-employer jobs are superior to being self-employed, and B) single-employer jobs are more demanding than being self-employed. I would argue both of these assumptions are unsubstantiated in general; special cases may exist either for or against the assumptions, but on average, the jury is still out, and likely will be for decades while the academics catch up to reality.

      Now that I've spent like 30 minutes of my life carefully arguing against the stance taken by a stranger on the internet, I'll acknowledge that it's far easier to argue against than to argue for something. Ivory took a stand by having an opinion, presenting it, and backing it up with arguments. I also want to praise Ivory for acknowledging that they may be wrong; this is done far too rarely nowadays, and opens the door to productive dialogue. Taking my cue from Ivory, I shall also present a stance of my own:

      I assert that it is a far stronger argument to present one's observations and intended responses to them without any assertions of the intent of others. For instance, I feel Ivory's stance would have been better served by presenting it as follows: "I have heard many indie devs justify numerous delays with health/mental issues. I do not believe that, statistically speaking, all of them are likely to be telling the truth. Because of this, I do not intend to support a project that manifests such issues, because I do not want to donate to a project which may be taking advantage of me. It could be that Innoxia's issues are genuine, but without any way to tell, I cannot in good conscience contribute to the Patreon, and would discourage others from doing so."

      The focus of tone away from Innoxia's veracity or deceit, from her health issues and their potential causes, and instead toward the facts that you can personally observe closes the door on all the criticisms I have above submitted. It makes it clear that you cast no aspersions on her statements in particular, only that you've observed what you feel to be a systemic deception, and you find that objectionable.

      I'm assuming that, at some point in my super verbose rant above, I've at some point misinterpreted or misrepresented Ivory's intentions. I assume this because it's been my experience that, in any situation, the most likely source of failure is the people involved. This is a big part of why I advocate the compassionate and unassuming style of communication; even if the intent is unchanged, the compassionate style is more likely to get positive results.

      Delete
    7. (Continued pt. 2)

      Consider: if I had replied with a simple, "Ugh, u sound like a republican bootstrapper dude and u don't kno anything about Innox", any reasonable reader would be entirely justified in ignoring my comment altogether; it makes assumptions about Ivory's knowledge of Innoxia, political beliefs, and does so in a way that contributes nothing to the conversation. (To be clear, I want to stress again that Ivory's argument was very coherent and dispassionate, and very much worthy of response; I'm simply inventing an utterly rank example of an internet comment for comparison.) Because the comment was abrasive and made assumptions that could easily be presumed false, it will be ignored by all who don't already agree. If the comment had been more neutral, it might actually get someone to read and consider it. In this way, a compassionate tone, even if used while saying, "I don't intend to support the project, Innoxia, because of A, B, and C" is far more likely to be internalized by her, be considered, and have appropriate action taken. In other words, you're more likely to get what you want.

      I'm going to acknowledge that I have only limited evidence to back up this stance; there is some literature for assertive communication, which is a nice thing to toss out during a debate, but to be honest, my vehement advocacy comes entirely from anecdote, and anecdotal evidence holds about as much water as a sieve. I still stand by my assertion, but want to acknowledge that anyone who disagrees is entirely rational to do so.

      Finally, now that I've spent more time than I probably should have responding to an internet comment, I want to leave a message for Innoxia: thank you for making this game. While I, like all the others, would very much like the next installment as soon as possible, I want to acknowledge that you are in no way beholden to me. (I'm sorry to say, I've been unable to contribute to the Patreon.) Even for those who support financially, the agreement of Patreon is that money is donated for your work, not for a fixed product. (It is, after all, not Kickstarter.) I've gained lots of enjoyment from what you've made so far, and I am confident that you will continue to produce the game when your circumstances permit. In the mean time, I wish you a speedy recovery, and thank you most sincerely for your work so far.

      Delete
    8. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    9. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    10. Wow... and I thought my comments were walls of text. You're either bored out of your mind and/or have too much time to spare to be deep-analyzing posts on a porn website on that level. Are you feeling lonely and want someone to talk to? Is that it? (Word of warning: I didn't bother to read past the Tl;DR.)

      Look, I warned I was a cynic sometimes, this being a prime example of that. My comment was mostly based on personal experience - I wasn't trying to warn anyone and I wasn't trying to be compassionate. Yes, it was a bitchy thing to do. I don't know if Inno was being honest or not but I'm a bit tired of her performance (or lack of thereof lately) hence the post. Sickness or not. In fact, these things have been happening way before she got her supposed sickness - it's basically a culmination of problems I've been witnessing boiling over.

      People are going to crucify me for my lack of empathy here but I don't have to trust or believe everything I see on the internet, all the time. My good will doesn't last forever. Inno is very lucky. She has a nice "job" that nets her over 3500$ a month. She doesn't have to answer to anyone but herself - she can work whenever she wants, however she wants. If she were to disappear for weeks or months on end, people would still support her. If only all those privileges came with a better sense of responsibility and performance to match... (again this isn't about her sickness but a culmination of problems that has lasted a long time).

      I'm sure people throw me in the fire for this, argue and complain about what I just said. I don't care. It's my opinion and I ain't changing it. Call me and insult me as much as you like.

      Delete
    11. tl;dr: One can't respond to something completely without first reading it, because one doesn't know its content. I didn't insult you, and actually held you in regard for your coherent argument. I think Innoxia doesn't owe us anything, as neither Patreon or SubStar promised a schedule for returns. Finally, while I do frown at your lack of empathy and skepticism, I in no way seek to crucify you for it because, as I've acknowledged repeatedly, it is rational and reasonable.

      "(Word of warning: I didn't bother to read past the Tl;DR.)"
      Roger that; I find it somewhat amusing that you don't bother trying to understand what I'm saying before responding; makes me wonder what your objective is in posting at all. As it happens, I admitted to being puzzled why I bothered to reply, and made several references to the fact that expecting someone to be swayed by a comment on the internet was silly. So I think we're on the same page there; I've no clue why I did this, when I'm neither bored nor have enough time to spare to waste any. So while I'm sure your assumptions about me *felt* right to you, you're pretty much as far off as it's possible to be. But, as is the problem with you believing Innoxia, you have no reason to believe me. This, too, I acknowleged in my wall of text.

      On the topic of "throwing [you] in the fire", if you read my post, you may note that I did no such thing. Neither did I insult you; I argued against some of the assumptions you made, but I thought I did a good job of giving you props for presenting a coherent argument. Shame you said you didn't read it.

      Finally, since this is an argument I hear a lot, I want to respond to your argument that she has a nice job. The thing is, according to Patreon, she doesn't. Anyone who donates does just that; they donate. Patrons of the arts don't sponsor e.g., a painter with the expectation that they'll get a painting. For kickstarter, you're absolutely correct that some return on investment is promised and therefore owed. You are also absolutely correct that you, if you feel Innoxia is not providing enough progress, are utterly justified in rescinding your patronage. I think the only point of contention we have, other than tone, is that she *owes* us progress. She does not; nowhere on the SubStar tier page does she promise any schedule for the updates. Similarly, we don't owe her anything; we are free to take our money elsewhere as we wish.

      Finally, it sounds like you feel somewhat defensive. Just as I'm not sure why you made your original post, I don't know why you made this one. If you are truly adamant in your stance, as your last paragraph suggests, and don't care what anyone says... what is your objective in that post? If what we say doesn't matter (as indeed it shouldn't on the internet) then why waste your own time? Are you projecting when you paint me as lonely? I doubt it, 'cause people are rarely that simple, but I truly wonder what you're hoping to accomplish with this exchange. I'm hoping you might tell me, because I'm curious, but I imagine your time is valuable as well, so I won't hold my breath.

      Thank you for your lengthy response, however little of my post it was directed at! :) I appreciate you taking the time to speak to me and enlighten me on your motives.

      Delete
    12. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    13. I replied because I was/am in a bad mood and felt like venting. I like this game and I want it to be finished, but I'm constantly left frustrated and annoyed at the way Inno does things.

      I'm not asking for a shoulder to cry on, in fact, I'd be surprised if anyone felt a tinge of sympathy after what I wrote. I just felt like writing my feelings in this comment section. Why? Well... it gives me some vague feeling of acknowledgement even though I'm not expecting a reply. I know it's stupid to write a public post and expect nobody to reply - that's why I said I wasn't here to be swayed.

      *Sigh* To clarify, I'm not angry at you or anyone in this comment section. And you're right, I was being defensive because I know how some people in this community tend to react to negativity. I'm sorry I skipped your posts (admittedly, they ARE pretty damn huge, even for someone who likes to read, like myself!)

      Delete
    14. That is totally fair; I don't think there exists a human who hasn't had a bad day, and your frustration at the delays is similarly understandable. I suspect that Inno also is aware, hence her apologies. That doesn't diminish the frustration, though, and I suspect everyone here can relate.

      For what it's worth, I DO feel sympathy, for the same reason I bothered to write my (fuckin' huge) wall of text; you're a human being, same as me, and I keep my faith in humanity alive mostly by seeking out strangers with whom I disagree and trying to find common ground. The fact that you bothered to take the time out of an already bad day to reply to me, some rando on the web, and did so honestly and respectfully, speaks very well to your character. There are shitheads in the world, so generally I want folk like you who are willing to talk to do well.

      I'll try to keep this short since, as you pointed out, I tend to talk way too much. :p (There are several professions, mine among them, to whom the joke has been applied, "Why use 10 words when 1000 will do just as well?" So that's a totally valid criticism, and thank you again for reading.) So I'll end by saying, 1) Thank you again for taking the time to reply and telling me what you were looking for. I think I was looking for the same, albeit in a different form. 2) I entirely agree that there are tons of people who will throw vitriol first, so your expectation of that was entirely reasonable. I wish it weren't, 'cause vitriol is bullshit, but this is the world we have. Finally, 3) I wanted to apologize for my 2nd response; I think it was pretty snarky, particularly toward the end, which wasn't warranted.

      I hope your day gets better, and thank you once again for the response; everyone deserves to be happy, but based on your civility to a porn blog commentor windbag, I think you're especially deserving. Kick some ass, Ivory!

      Delete
    15. You too. Thank you for being kind and civil despite my moody outburst, it's rare to find someone like this on the internet these days. Hope everything goes well and smoothly on your side as well, you deserve it too. :)

      Delete
    16. @Pope of The Church of Vrelnir We're just showing that we continue to support Inno and would rather Inno focus on recovery than development in this situation.

      @Unknown and Ivory Not everybody has an impenetrable immune system. Those on the opposite end of the spectrum have it even worse. Not sure where Inno lies, but I'd guess somewhere in the average range, which is still not immune to illness. That and doing development like this single handed, even with the volunteer support from the GitHub, can be draining.

      Delete
    17. @Ivory You sound like a right cunt.

      Delete
    18. @Anonymous
      Dude. Did you not read the same exchange that I did? Ivory never once levied an ad hominem attack. They presented an opinion, backed it up with reasoned argument, and engaged in what I felt was a productive discussion in clarifying each other's stance without anger.

      I'm suspect I'm wasting my time, since it's known that people often use anonymity as an excuse to act out in a way they never would if they saw the person they were insulting. But since I've been wrong many times before, I'm going to assume that you're not a troll looking for cheap kicks, and instead someone didn't like their tone and instead would prefer them to take a more cordial tone.

      So Anon, what are you hoping to accomplish with your post? Per my above assumption, if you would like Ivory to change their tone, you may note that Ivory and I already had a productive discussion. You may further note that Ivory admitted to being defensive precisely because she expected to face insults and vitriol. I would note that, while (I hope!) she didn't get any from me, that's exactly what she got from you. If your intent was to incite her to change her tone to something more respectful, she already implied that insults would have the precisely opposite effect! So if you posted because you didn't like her tone, then you've effectively worked against your own goals.

      I could go through all sorts of other possible motives of yours, but since I don't know you from Adam, I won't bother since it's more likely than not I'll be wrong. In any case, if you wanted something other than to make another human being feel bad (which is a reprehensible goal, and bears no further discussion) then I'd implore you to tell me what you're hoping to accomplish; naive though it may be, I truly believe that people can find common ground and interact with each other with compassion, and hope that you would be willing to help me understand you better.

      Delete
    19. @Alex2011 Am an average individual. I don't get sick like once a month. I can't even remember the last time I've been sick. Especially sick enough to not be able to go about my day and work. Largely because I do basic hygiene and don't bathe in shit.

      The cool thing about the 21st century is that being able to prevent sickness is really easy and that knowledge is available to almost everyone in first-world countries. Wash your hands. Don't touch your orifices. Take showers. Eat healthy so your immune system isn't running off of McDonalds.

      That is all it takes to prevent yourself from getting sick. If you're still getting sick then you must live in 14th century Europe.

      Delete
    20. @Unknown Sickness can't be totally prevented, only minimized since there are multiple diseases that have no permanent preventative or even any at all like the many strains of Influenza and the Common Cold, and there is no cure or treatment from overworking except to take a break long enough to recover fromm the generated fatigue. As I said, doing this almost single handed is extremely draining to the point of risking too much work for the body to handle. To top it all off, there are people whose immune systems are compromised in some way, whether severely to the point of having to isolate permanently or enough to increase the frequency of illness.

      Delete
  8. (Sign) Beware of the "Corona-chan"! She is out and she is dangerous!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Perhaps someone can make a mod for the enforcers to say this as a "warning" after we beat them? in silly mode instead of their normal lines?

      Delete
    2. I don't know My 87 year old grandmother had it and the worst she got was a mild fever and runny nose. I have antibodies for it so apparently I had it at one point and it never did enough for me to even notice.

      Delete
    3. @third anon It depends on the person, some are affected much worse, some no worse than a standard flu or cold.

      Delete
    4. More than that, there are multiple strains of Corona going around, one being monsterously dangerous and the other being on par with a weak case of the Flu.

      Delete
    5. @Anon There's always been strains going around, but you are right about that one particular strain being extremely dangerous, especially if Inno has certain conditions.

      Delete
  9. Health is always more important than work, no matter the situation.
    Glad people understand that
    Take your time

    ReplyDelete
  10. This ride never ends.

    ReplyDelete
  11. If it's any consolation, I'm dealing with cancer right now, so I'm right there with you. Get better soon!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. How is cancer comparable to "not feeling 100%"? Please don't lessen the seriousness of your ailment to try to excuse Inno's delays.

      Delete
    2. @Unknown Because Azzhat knows what it feels like to not feel well. This is not an excuse, this is something that could potentially end development in a VERY bad way if Inno doesn't back off for a bit to recover.

      Delete
    3. @Unknown Don't forget that there's a lethal disease going around.

      Delete
    4. @Alex 2011 @Turbotowns I feel like not feeling well because you have cancer is way different from not feeling well because of almost anything else.

      I've never had cancer so I can't speak from experience about how it feels like to have cancer. However, if not feeling 100% was comparable to cancer, then society wouldn't work. People wouldn't work at all and nothing would get done, then everyone would die.

      If you feel 100% all the time, then you're a goddamned freak. Everybody has worries and worries create stress. Stress = not feeling 100% right? So if everybody did what Inno did and stopped working because they're not feeling 100% then nothing would work; like I stated previously.

      Also I feel like if she had COVID she would tell us instead of just saying "not feeling 100%."

      Delete
    5. @Unknown It is different in a specific sense, but it is the same in a general sense. Not every instance of 'not feeling 100%' is stress, it could be a minor illness like a cold, but that still means Inno needs to back off to recover either way. If Inno works while under the effect of whatever is causing this, that is risking making the situation worse. Wouldn't want this to go from a case of 'not feeling 100%' to a case of 'not feeling 50% or lower' as that could mean the end of the game before we even see the fields if you catch my fairly gruesome meaning. As far as the possibility of this being COVID, I agree, I think we are lucky and that this isn't that. I've personally never had cancer myself, either, but I have had family go through multiple forms. It isn't pleasant and phrasing it that way is pouring the whole freaking bag of sugar on it.

      Delete
    6. @Alex2011 Old thread, yadda-yadda. I forgot to come back and check any replies I may have gotten.

      This is gonna be one of those "I can't speak for her, but..". I feel like she were sick she'd just go out and say it as she has done times before. I don't see any reason why this would be different and she would rephrase "I am sick" to "I am not feeling 100%"

      Whatever the case, I don't really care anymore. I wish this game wouldn't have turned out like this, but it has. I really enjoyed this game when I first found it ~2 years ago, but it just turned to shit. It hasn't made any notable progress since I first found it and it's quite sad.

      I just come back now to "taunt" the people who think that this game will progress faster than the snail-on-tape pace it's currently at. Some serious reform needs to happen at Dev HQ over there if any progress is to be made. I doubt it though.

      Delete
  12. Oh, no! I hope you make a speedy recovery! Make sure not to exert yourself right after getting better, your body and mind will appreciate the break!

    ReplyDelete
  13. Update. It's a delay.
    Same as it ever was.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "Time isn't holding up
      Time isn't after us"
      And that is why this kind of games' development never comes to an end, as long as they can push it, they will, in the end they are earning money because of them never coming up.
      Some people are saying that game development is not a real job, well this game at least has some development, and while developing games is a job, living out of donors for a piece of work that is never coming out isn't if people are getting money from the same vn as every other with the same assets as every other of course they are going to abuse it, porn is a great way to gain mindless consumers, it is not the dev's fault it is the customer's fault, stop thinking with your dick and you'll see when a project is going nowhere and when there is no work behind it, like I said this game has some work behind and I appreciate that, but even for a single person this is not what you can do in 4 years, this is barely a demo and the game is text based, there is barely graphics to care about.
      And porn game developers are not the only abusive devs, while these may seem to be some of the worst, just look an app store those are full with shit made in two seconds just so people see a thousand ads while trying to play, mainly abusing known franchises and trends, easy bait for kids who don't know better, and with the big devs is the same EA with dlcs and micro transactions, paradox also with dlcs, consoles with paid online... they just want easy money earned by different ways but it ends up in abusing the customer, also people are usually harder with smaller and indy devs, but at least they are not fucking multimillionaire companies they usually need that money, and like I said before the yeast of all of these is that people buy those dlcs, micro transactions, they pay for online in consoles, they invest monthly in those abusive patreons. So while people are still exploitable they are going to be exploited, in the end, they are the ones who are paying, they could not pay and if no one payed there would be no reason to do this kind of things.
      But again all of those with the real work and boss thing, game development is a job, and if you are developing a game by yourself you are your own boss you decide what, when, how...and yes when you're being funded by fans you should work on doing what you promised to do no matter the circumstances this people are paying you because they want you to invest that money in the making the game or just because they like your game, I would feel bad if I were doing near nothing when there's people that trust in me, so even tho I could just delay shit whenever I want I would at least do what I can.
      Also, paying someone doesn't mean you're are their boss, some people get that confused.

      Delete
    2. Okay, so I think I managed to glean a few things from that wall of text. And you're not entirely wrong. Inno definitely has an obligation to make the game she has taken money to make. And yes, if you continue to pay someone when the aren't doing what they said they'd do, you're complicit. This is why I've revoked my financial support for the game until the main story reaches Elis.

      That is, I was prepared to continue to support the game through the development of the Foli Fields (which I wasn't that interested in; just random encounters), but now I'm requiring her to demonstrate actual progress on the main story for me to renew my support.

      And I very much doubt I'm the first or only person to feel this way.

      Where I disagree with you is the implication that Inno's plan is to not make the game and to simply milk supporters until the well dries up. I think she wants to make it, she just keeps getting sidetracked. The stated development roadmap means that the game will probably be a more - not less - profitable venture after v1.0. That is, once there is a complete storyline, new content (in the form of new sidequests and new features) can be added to the game almost indefinitely. That will be the time to allow people who support the game to vote on new content: a far better incentive for support than access to interim builds.

      So it simply doesn't make sense for Inno to be deliberately delaying forward progress. This is down to bad decisions and inexperience.

      What I would say she needs to be doing is to focus on adding real progress to the main story at least every two public updates. Bugfix/feature updates need to be every second update at the max. Stop with the sidequest nonsense for now and get a playable version of the main story. Get out some kind of overview of the whole story so she can get feedback on the whole story more meaningful than the incessant "Add [really specific race]!" "Add [really specific fetish]!" that keeps sidetracking her. She's got a great idea and a solid plan to make it happen. She just needs to stop buggering around and start delivering on it.

      As I've said before: it's time for her to make her game now.

      Delete
    3. No, I may have worded it bad, in a pessimistic way, I'm not implying that her plan is not to make the game, I'm saying that it is common practice and people should be careful, what I started to write as a "haha this games are never coming out" ended up as a general critic of the media, and also defending the small indy devs.

      I like what the game has to offer for now, but the main quest has not moved from when I started following it's development, like you say it is taking a very sidetracked development, In the roadmap says that versions from v0.8 to v1.0 are focused on adding in more content, so I don't understand why she is taking the time that could be spent in the main quest to what she could do in this two versions or even after v1.0.

      Just looking at the to do list in the github is overwhelming there is a lot of things to add, and there is some very interesting things, but people can wait for that, as what they want to see is progress with the main quest. Optional things can be expected to be delayed as they are optional.

      You just can't put the decorations on an unbaked dough.

      The approach I think she is taking is too much for her or anyone, I mean it seems like what she is doing is trying to get everything surrounding each step of the quest to a point where she considers it polished enough, before taking the next step, and I think this is not a good approach, first you do the sketch and then you turn it into art, when you have the skeleton of the game it is way easier to polish it.

      And I think that's all I have to say, this time I tried to make the text more bearable to the eyes, last time I forgot to skip lines when starting new paragraphs.

      Delete
    4. @Anon and @Carl0s Danger
      I talk way too much, so I'll keep this short: you two rock. I really appreciate how you two had a legit discussion, deescalated a situation that in hotter heads would've devolved to a shouting match, came to common ground, and gave Innoxia a calm and well-reasoned suggestion on a change in how she operates. Thank you two for letting me read a really nice and constructive exchange!

      Delete
    5. There's two types of Game Development...
      The Japanese Style where The story is made first and the development of everything else is done around the story...
      Then there is the Western Style where The Game Mechanics are polished first before the story is implemented...
      Guess which one Inno is supposedly following...

      Delete
    6. @Shirakuroi Obviously western, though arguably a hybrid approach with a higher focus on mechanics since there is some story already in and more is supposed to come in this update noww that Inno realized what we thought of skipping the long standing fields introduction on 0.4.

      @Carl0s I'm going to have to partially disagree on this one. You seem to be mistaken about the funding Inno gets. It isn't tied to the game, it's literally just a donation, so that really isn't much of a threat to development. It could cause Inno to make more bad decisions in the future, sure, but it is no threat by itself. Other than that, I agree, it is time for Inno to crack down on bad habits and get this done as planned.

      Delete
    7. @Alex2011 To clarify my reasons for supporting this game and then revoking (hopefully temporarily) that support:

      I've supported several indie smut games since discovering the genre. I've ended up revoking that support for most of them as it became apparent to me that the dev(s) themselves had no idea how to finish their game.

      SO when I discovered LT, a game with great potential and a clear vision of how it was going to be completed, I decided it was worthy of my (admittedly minimal) support.

      But when Inno decided to abandon the roadmap by saying that she was going to release v0.4 without FF content, my reason for support vanished. Sure LT is still a great idea, but without a clear commitment to forward progress, it belongs in the same box as the other games I stopped supporting. So I stopped supporting it.

      I don't mean my withdrawal of support to be a threat. It's just that my support was for the development of an "erotic, text-based RPG", not some sandbox sex-sim. When Inno produces tangible work on that RPG, my support will resume.

      Delete
    8. @Carl0s I know your reasons, you've been pretty clear since you dropped support and your reasons are the same as my reason for holding back my support as well. It is absolutely not a threat, Inno was getting the support because you thought development would go better with this game than with others, but Inno has made a decision that would put this game at risk of falling into that same issue that you dropped the other games for. Inno is putting the mechanics before the story, which is absolutely not what should happen with an RPG of any type, you're right and, while it isn't necessarily my place to say so, I think you made the right decision in pulling your support at least until Inno learns not to do that.

      Delete
  14. *skips work for 2-3 days*
    boss calls: where the hell are you
    her: oh i'm not feeling 100% lately so i'll come to work after couple of weeks
    boss: understandable

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Except that's an entirely different situation from independent game development. There is no boss in this case except Inno, who happens to be the one not feeling well.

      Delete
    2. The point is is that in a normal environment you are expected to be at work even if you feel shitty. A high percentage of people in America work under someone, and they all are expected to be at work on time.

      What Inno is doing is the equivalent of her saying and doing "I am going to be at work Thursday." then not show up with the excuse of "I wasn't feeling 100%." It's laughable she gives up work because she isn't feeling 100%, because literally almost everyone does just that all the time.

      If I didn't feel 100% whenever I worked out then I would almost never work out. Yet, I still do it and I am my own boss. There is nobody there to force me to do it except myself.

      Delete
    3. exactly, u are getting paid so u HAVE to be on time no matter what, the only excuse is ur lazy ass.

      she just has to make up an excuse so all these simps in her comment section start spoiling her.

      there is a game called degrees of lewdity and the dev always responds to the comments and is always on time. even with little pay and the game is amazing.

      inno is slowly becoming like a mini yandere dev.

      Delete
    4. @TT
      Do you even know the difference between a Salary and a Donation...?
      Inno is far different to YanDev... If there is any Text-based Game Dev out there that's close to YanDev then it's the Dev of a game called Newlife...

      Delete
    5. she IS getting paid, that's my point.
      why do donators donate? bcs they want to support the dev so the dev can work faster and release even better content.

      most of the devs are like this, not just inno.
      they start of great, with constant updates, then when the donation start to flow they'll just take it easy like: "oh i'll just post a delay no big deal"

      i've been following this game for some time now and every time i visit this page all i see is delay posts.
      i laugh every time i see "I post an update every 7-10 days"

      Delete
    6. What are you even talking about? Innoxia is not under a salaried contract. People donate to her to support the game. At no point has the context ever been about her 'being on time' or 'working when she's ill'. If someone donates because they expect her to do that, then they've scammed themselves, because Innoxia has at no point made any implications that she will do such a thing.

      Delete
    7. You're not getting my point, and I'm tired of explaining

      Delete
    8. They don't care to get your point. They know you're right; they just want to drive you insane by making you explain it over and over, pretending to not get it by saying irrelevant and stupid things to derail you. Just stop wasting your time.

      Delete
    9. Oh look, another person who's stepped in to "defend" Inno by arguing that development of this game isn't her job while not realising that it's Inno herself who offered to treat development of this game as her job if her support reached a certain level (hint: it's reached that level).

      I mean, it's honestly like these "defenders" have never even visited Inno's Subscribestar, never mind supported the game.

      Delete
    10. @TT Inno is taking donations unrelated to the game, what the donators give the donation for is irrelevant.

      @Carl0s Agreed, Inno said it, now Inno has to hold to it.

      @Unknown This isn't a normal environment, that's the point.

      Delete
    11. @alex2011 when somone starts a project somewhere so people can donate and support them it automatically becomes a job, people/supporters donate so the developer can spend most of their time developing that project, but every freaking dev becomes lazy bcs they reached their goal and that goal is the donations, this is my point inno is clearly lacking in effort, devs always start of great, answering to people's comments, taking advises, working their ass off on their project, but when the donations start to build up, boom suddenly they don't give two shits about their projects nor their supporters

      Delete
    12. @TT Absolutely not, it only becomes a job when it all other sources of income are dropped in favor of that and even then the fact still remains that Inno's development income sites are just internet donation jars. What the donator donates for is irrelevant because they were told up front that it was not paying for the game, but was acting as a general donation, and they did it anyway. Inno isn't lacking in effort, only skill. The problem is where the effort Inno puts in is going, which is toward side crap that can wait while the main plot catches up to a point where that side crap is needed like the race modding not being needed until the area after the fields.

      Delete
  15. Don't worry about taking your time to rest up. Your health takes priority, especially with covid going around.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Perfectly understandable, we're all human here, we get sick sometimes and sometimes it hits hard enough to stop us from doing things.

    ReplyDelete
  17. In 2020 they voted Lilith's Throne the worst game to play in America. Main issues?
    Sky high rate of delays, and more people waiting for the main quest than anywhere else.
    Can’t deny it - it’s all true...
    But everybody still wants to play it.
    Innoxia’s always got a promise for you. Foloi Fields might be a lie, an illusion... but it’s there... Just around the corner… and it keeps you going.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You should take a look at darkfal(rise of agon)

      Delete
    2. @Pope of the Church of Vrelnir

      Oh, you know. They did. Just, you know ... them.

      Delete
    3. Its a game of fetishes. And I'm a fucking degenerate.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0O5Ee7VkFMs

      Delete
    4. Finally, someone gets the joke.

      Delete
  18. Feel better soon Inno!

    ReplyDelete
  19. Don’t strain yourself and get better soon!

    ReplyDelete
  20. Just popping in to say I only recently found the game and I'm a big fan! Please take your time and know that we're cheering you on. :D

    ReplyDelete
  21. No te esfuerces mucho, mejor toma tu tiempo la gente puede esperar, ademas primero esta tu salud

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Esto que es? otra persona que habla espaƱol que juega lilith? es un milagro de la ciencia!(?

      Delete
  22. a message to those who complain about the delay
    1. It would help to learn to read your own language, she said she did less, not that she did nothing.
    2. I think it's stupid to demand something from a freelance developer who works alone using her time to bring a decent game, if she doesn't feel good it is better that she rest and bring something good to make her reluctant and bring a shitty update.
    3. I have seen people complain using as an excuse that Inno makes money with this and therefore should be obliged to do so because it is her job ... Do you know that it is a DONATION? Nobody is obliged to give her anything, if they do it is because they like what she does and it is her way of expressing support for what Inno does.

    well I hope you understand ^^ ~

    P.S. I'm sorry if there is something misspelled, my native language is not English ~

    ReplyDelete
  23. The amount of entitlement in a lot of these comments boggles the mind. This game is made by a freaking human, not an unstoppable machine.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The amount of sickeningly sweet coddling is equally frustrating imo

      Delete
    2. Agreed on both counts, that's why I prefer to take a tough love approach. I'm willing to be understanding when something is out of Inno's control, but I WILL call Inno out when a bad decision is made.

      Delete
  24. Fictitiously Sane13 October 2020 at 21:41

    *laughs in gutted companions*

    ReplyDelete
  25. Yeah. I was too optimistic. I'm not sure we're seeing the Fields get any content this year. And if it's any indication, we're never actually seeing the story come to a close.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Oh shit, true. If we're already 3 months past due (0.4 was supposed to come out in June IIRC) with the possibility of not even getting FF this month, then what the hell are the other locations gonna look like?

      Delete
    2. @FightingGold
      Well... I don't know what the future holds but this game has been in development since 2016/2017. It took Inno 3-4 years to come close to finishing one major area, and she's not quite done yet.

      My assumption (worst case scenario) is that others areas may take just as long, based on the fact the bigger the game gets the more complicated it becomes to juggle all of its aspects (coding, bug fixing, adding content, revamps, more frameworks, etc). Also assuming Inno keeps working by herself and people keeping helping (reporting bugs, posting fixes, adding side-content that could be integrated into the game, etc) at the same pace and level as they are now.

      We have Dominion ("nearly" done), Fields, Jungle, Savannah, Tundra and Ocean as the planned major areas, with each one sporting their own sub-map, like Submission is to Dominion. To call this a Herculean task is an understatement. I don't know how Inno is going to manage it and I don't know if the project will last the amount of years needed to reach the light at the end of the tunnel. I guess we just take one step at a time and enjoy what we have.

      Delete
    3. @Ivory

      Just remember though, that much of the time that Inno has spent on the game up to this point has been in developing the game engine itself. There really is no good reason why development of the main story can't begin to progress much faster. Shelve the sidequests, add new features only when absolutely necessary (eg. Lamias for the jungle stage) and forge ahead towards v1.0.

      Just as an example, the Foloi Fields tiles are most likely going to work in the same way as Dominion alley or Submission tunnel tiles. It's not like Inno has to work out from scratch how to make random encounters happen on tiles.

      Delete
    4. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    5. @Carl0s
      I sincerely hope so. I wrote that assumption as a worst case scenario - I wouldn't mind being wrong though! I still believe certain things will become more complicated as the game grows but at least the main engine bits should be done by now. Hopefully.

      Also, 3-4 years working on this game means she has had time to learn a few things and improve her coding skills.

      Delete
  26. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  27. I want spiders buuut... That might not happen in the near future if at all.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. you right but you can make spiders a thing after the update like how im going to try and make a kobold mod for my self and everyone else who want it expect a short (under 4ft) scaily race

      Delete
    2. I don't really have the technical knowhow for that I'm afraid but I'm sure someone could pull it off. Unfortunately with how long it takes Inno to get through one area, spiders/driders are not gonna be seen for some years...

      Delete